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It seems to me, that the Mets fan base is in favor of doing whatever it takes to land Johan Santana. At MetsBlog yesterday, Matthew Cerrone discussed potential trades and ultimately concludes that he’d pull the trigger on a deal for Johan Santana, which would give up 4 pitching prospects, probably Mike Pelfrey, Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra in addition to Carlos Gomez.
Earlier today, Anthony posted his case for unloading the farm for Mr. Santana.
I’m here to convince you otherwise.
By trading four pitching prospects, plus the very ‘toolsy’ Carlos Gomez for Johan, its essentially mortgaging most of our farm system in favor of winning right now, as well as mortgaging all of our financial flexibility because we’d have to sign Johan to the 7 year deal he seeks, hovering arounds $20 million a year.
We’re all crying for “Freddy Coupon” to open up the wallet for Johan now, and we’ll be set. So we trade for him, but then we want a new LF after Alou is gone, but wait, we’ve given up our financial flexibility on Johan. But it’s a double whammy. Having less financial wiggle room would be OK—if you had people in the farm system who could be used as replacements. However, those players who could be useful at the Major League level anytime soon will then be a part of the Minnesota Twins organization.
So what would we be getting with Johan?
He’ll be 29 when the season starts. Granted we’ll probably get a few years of very solid production out of him, but there are so many variables that can come into play with a pitcher, mainly injuries. There is always the possibility he tears his rotator cuff, a ligament in his elbow and requires serious, career threatening surgery. That leaves us with millions of dollars on the table that handcuff our franchise for years. Even less daunting, is the chance he develops minor injuries as he ages such as recurrent hamstring problems that allow him to make only 25 starts a year. He could even age poorly and we’re stuck with an expensive, unproductive pitcher for a couple years. Injury concerns may seem far fetched, but pitchers’ injuries are so unpredictable and unreliable, and I’m not comfortable investing that much talent and money in a guy that only plays every fifth day.
Injuries aside, he has a 4.41 post season ERA, so we can be sure he’ll carry us to that postseason title. (heavy sarcasm)
Should we lock up Oliver Perez long term, after this following season we’ll only have two shoe-ins for our rotation in 2009: Perez and John Maine. By trading for Johan, we have a third mainstay in our rotation for years to come, but we have to look elsewhere for starters four and five. Our system will be depleted, and our wallet will be emptied into the hands of Johan Santana, so we’ll likely be left with unfortunate options as our fourth and fifth starters.
We don’t know what type of careers Mulvey, Pelfrey, Humber and Guerra will have. Guerra is 18 and everybody seems to rave about him. Everybody seems to really like Mulvey too. However, people seem to be down on Pelfrey and Humber. Humber is still recovering from Tommy John Surgery, and if you look at the numbers, starters bounce back two years after surgery. Best example: Chris Carpenter. Let Humber regain arm strength and we’ll see what comes from that. People express concern over Pelfrey’s lack of a second pitch, but I’ll take a 6′7″ 23 year old with a mid 90 mph sinker any day. It would be a grand mistake to sell low on a prospect, as we would be doing with Pelfrey and Humber.
The way things are looking now, unless either the Twins or Red Sox cave on their demands its very possible Johan will be a free agent next year. Do we not have the patience to wait a year and save the five top prospects we’d be losing?
In addition to Santana, C.C. Sabathia, Ben Sheets and Brad Penny can all become free agents next year. Save five prospects to have one season’s patience. If everybody is so gung-ho about being impatient and demanding to win now, why was everybody in such an uproar when Milledge was traded?
Beyond the four top pitchers we could lose, Carlos Gomez is faster than Jose Reyes–according to Reyes. He’s less developed at the plate and plays a less important position, but you can’t teach being tall and you can’t teach being fast. Alou is presumably gone after this year, and Church is solid but not a long term answer. Gomez would be great to groom for 2009 and Church could hold the fort until Fernando Martinez is ready.
We can sign somebody such as Bartolo Colon or Freddy Garcia to fill in this year, and next year pounce on the strong pitcher market.
In summation:
I’m all in favor of trading for Santana. But four pitching prospects plus Gomez? No thank you. Take out one of the pitchers, and leave us with something to work with, I’ll probably bite. But all those prospects is just taking our chips and pushing them all in on this hand (this year) something we feel pressured to do after The Collapse, but in truth–by not making this trade we might be less likely to win this year, but we can maximize our winning over the next ten years.
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5 Responses for "The Case Against Unloading The Farm For Johan"
The fact that you are getting an outstanding starting pitcher for a few pitchers and a couple of outfielders is unbelievable. First of all, Guerra and Martinez are on 18 and God knows how they will pan out at this point in their career. Humber/Pelfrey both have had their chances to prove to the Mets that they are worthy of being on this team and haven’t done anything to impress me. The Mets prospects are very overrated.
I’m willing to risk the $20 million a year for six years and potential risk at an injury if it means I have a chance to win a couple of championships through Santana’s tenure as a Met.
The answer for the rotation is not Freddy Garcia. It is not Bartolo Colon. Those are fallback options that count as high risk, high reward type signings. Garcia won’t even be available until June or July at best. What do we do until then? Play Mike Pelfrey in the 5th spot again? I’m sure his career 5-9 record with a 5.55 ERA will be enough.
The pitching market may not be as strong as you may think next year with teams starting to lockup pitchers of that caliber long-term now before they even hit the market.
If the Omar doesn’t make a serious move for a good pitcher this offseason, we might as well build for 2009 and Citifield. There is no way the Mets can compete with Pedro, El Duque, Perez, Maine and Pelfrey in this rotation. Pelfrey sure as hell isn’t going to cover Glavine’s 200 innings and El Duque and Pedro are good for at least one stint on the DL per season.
This is the problem with the Mets. Instead of trading their prospects when their value is sky high, they bring them up to the majors and they make sure they lower their value before trading them. Milledge is a prime example right now. Pelfrey and Humber are next. Their value has gone way down since a year ago.
I have to agree with Anthony on this. Between the Mets having two first-round draft picks and Omar’s Latin connections, the Mets will have no problem restocking their farm system this season if they were to give up their farm in a trade. Omar is good for just about one Latin prospect per year in Fernando Martinez and Francisco Pena. The Mets just took two nice pitchers in Eddie Kunz and Nathan Vineyard this past June in the Amateur Draft. Not to mention, the team still has a ton of young bullpen arms like Ambiorix Burgos and Joe Smith. They also have a couple of young pitchers in Brant Rustich and Jon Niese.
We’d be making a huge mistake on giving up on Pelfrey and Humber now. For some reason people are under the impression that the Mets’ prospects suck and that’s not true.
Pelfrey and Humber need more development–we rushed them too quickly. Having them go for us this year in the majors was a mistake. The big leagues is no place to learn how to pitch or to refine your mechanics and other pitches.
You can’t depend on the amateur draft for anything, its so tough to tell what you’re getting.
The collapse has imprinted this idea on us, that the Mets are now some terrible team that NEEDS the big gun. We don’t. It’d be great but its not neccesary for us to win.
At Fox Sports, Dayn Perry has an article up with a division-by-division breakdown, where he lists the Mets still as the top team in the NL East.
Saying we need that top starter to compete this year is just absurd.
Respectfully to all involved with their passionate and serious analyses here: I cannot understand how people are condemning Pelfrey. Al serious indicators show that the vast majority of pitchers need a few years of development before it can be determined how good they will be as MLBers. Have you ever seen Glavine’s record for his first three years in MLB? Not so pretty.
Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see Santana in a Mets uniform come April, but I also question how bright it is to give up our best prospects to date.
You folks all recall Pelfrey’s dazzling late season win over Atlanta, right? Don’t tell me that didn’t make you think twice about how tremendous a pitcher this kid may be once he gets his major league groove on. I actually am very keen to see him become a part of the regular rotation. If he stinks it up consistently this year, then I think we have much better grounds to judge his career prospects, though not completely. My money is on him not stinking it up, but on becoming a high quality MLBer–possible future Cy Young material.
So, in the end, I would support him becoming part of a deal for Santana–a proven ace–but I am also confident he’s going to tunr out to be a fine pitcher in his own right. For me, it’s kind of a win-win.
Future Cy Young? Have you been hitting the Met Kool Aid this afternoon?
It’s not even the matter of the Mets acquiring a front of the line pitcher just for this year. After this season, the only current starting pitcher that is under contract still is John Maine. Not to say that Pedro or Ollie won’t be re-signed or anything. I would feel much more comfortable going into next season knowing that I have more than one starter coming back at the end of the year for sure.
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